Qualities of the World’s Best Project Managers

David feels like project managers get a bad rap and has tried to raise their profile within creative firms. So he’s gathered a list of traits from the best project managers he’s met in the hundreds of agencies he’s worked with over the years.

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“Understanding Account People”

Transcript

Blair: Today, David, we're going to talk about Project Managers.

David: I hear clapping in the background.

Blair: From a very small group of people.

David: All four of them.

Blair: When you worked in the business, I'm guessing it was the same as when I started in the business, which was-- There were no project managers. There were account managers. There was a production manager or two. Depending on the agency, there might have been a broadcast producer. Project managers didn't really become part of our world on mass until everything got technical. Is that right?

David: Yes. They called them traffic, and that was just a very small part of what a real project manager does nowadays. You're still doing some traffic, but it's a real mistake to think that traffic is project management. It's just a very small part of it.

Blair: There was traffic managers, production managers. That's who I grew up with. I remember my first agency job, the production manager was the person who was in charge of all the resourcing, and that's the term that you use in your model. You call this function resourcing?

David: Yes, resourcing. Right.

Blair: She was in charge of everything and she made all the rules. You couldn't get access to any resource in the agency without going through her. She was the grown-up in the building.

David: You're still scared of her. Look at you. 20 years later, you're still-- You remember when taxi cabs were radio dispatched, and you were sitting in the cab, overhearing the dispatcher yell at the taxi driver for taking too long at that donut stop or not showing up fast enough? That's who these people are.

Blair: Yes, that's actually a good parallel. We didn't use the term trafficking, but it was like a trafficking manager. I remember her saying-- Her name was Heather Coleman. Heather, if you're still around, hi. Her saying to me, rolling her eyes at something I had done or written, and she said, "Okay, come see me. We're going to make some more rules." [laughs]

David: That's exactly right. We did a whole episode about account managers, and I just thought, you know what, that is exactly the problem. We are glorifying account managers by doing an episode about them first, and meanwhile, all the project managers making the world go around, we haven't talked enough about them. That's why I thought, it's my turn to come up with a topic. I love this one. This one's fun.

Blair: All right, the topic is Qualities of the World's Best Project Managers. Now, you do a lot of testing of people in your total business resets that you do. I imagine you've got this archive of hundreds of these people that you've tested, and you've seen some patterns. Is that correct?

David: Yes, there's about 5,000 some of great project managers in our field. We not only know roughly what their personality profile looks like. There's some variation, but a basic area, but we also see the qualities of these people. Years ago, I was reading something. It was just an accidental discovery, and I came across Andy Crowe, C-R-O-W-E, who I guess is a guru. I didn't know it at the time, but a guru in project management and systems.

He had interviewed 5,000 project managers, and then pulled out the top 2% of them. What's 2% of 5,000? 100, I guess. I took his work and I adapted it to our field, and then I wrote this long article, which is actually the most red thing I've ever written, which is really odd, because I'm not some project management guru.

Blair: Really?

David: Yes. It was written for the Behance Network. They just asked me to write something on project management, I was fishing around, and wrote this, many, many years ago. I've updated it a little bit, but it came from Andy Crowe's work applied to this field. I just find it really interesting, because if you don't know what project management is, these are the people that you're a little bit afraid of. You think they're Dower, and they don't see the world very positively, just in the way--

I've had some experience with these folks, too. I think of air traffic controllers as project managers. When I'm flying into LaGuardia, I'll say, "6906 Juliet, checking in LaGuardia." What they don't say is, "Oh, 6906 Juliet, so glad to have you here today. When you get a chance, no hurry at all, turn 30 degrees to the left, climb 4,000 feet, and hold.

Blair: When you get around to it.

David: No hurry. There's only 40 planes I'm controlling, but y'all do what you want. No problem. No, they're very matter-of-fact.

Blair: Yes. They're pragmatic. They're business. There's not a lot of emotion. They don't wrap stuff with emotions. They just give you the facts, right?

David: You're right.

Blair: I know you have a laundry list of these characteristics, so I don't know if I'm high grading some of them, but as you're talking, it makes me realize that-- Account managers are business development people. They're always optimistic. Project managers are just way more-- Let's go with pragmatic. Are they pessimistic?

David: They have to be a little bit, just to counter. When you say account people are-- They're optimistic. It's like, yes, they're optimistic about what we can do for that money. [laughs] A project manager says, "No that's not going to happen." I think firms generally have great account managers. I'm not sure they have great project managers. This isn't really in the notes I sent you, but it's worth mentioning.

Why is it that firms struggle to hire great project managers? There's a little clue in here. The people who start firms, they're used to getting their way. They make quick decisions, they're risk takers, and they don't suffer people gladly, who are not deferential to them. In a hiring process, a project manager's just going to tell you the way it is. They don't read the room and change how they're saying things. They're just matter of fact.

That's one reason why we don't have great project managers, is because they're not deferential and they're also not deferential in the way they run things too. That doesn't mean that they're dower, pessimistic people. They're just matter of fact, I think they are the most important cog in your firm. Not the most difficult. I think that's an account manager. The most important is project manager.

After I'm dead and gone, and somebody is talking about me at some service, one of the points I want them to mention is that, "David saw the role of project managers, shown a spotlight on it, told people that they were just as important as account managers, and that it was not a stepping stone from one to the next. As a project management group, we are grateful for the influence he had." That's one of the things I'd like to do for this industry, because I just think it's overlooked too much, and it shouldn't be.

Blair: Yours is going to be one of the few funerals that's attended primarily by project managers, but we're getting ahead of ourselves. [laughs]

David: Just to make sure I'm dead. That's why they're going to it.

Blair: All right. You have a list of what makes project managers special. We've touched on a couple of these, but let's go through the list. The first one, it's evocative of the air traffic controller.

David: Yes. They command authority naturally. The opposite of this would be somebody that requires borrowed authority, where borrowed authority would be like, "You need to listen to me because if you don't listen to me, I'm going to tell on you." I don't have the authority, but I can borrow authority from somebody else. Project managers don't do that. They earn authority because, over time, everybody else at the firm realizes how central their role is.

They're not threatening people, they're not using borrowed authority. People have just come to realize, and sometimes grudgingly, that, "Wow, when this person is involved, we get a better product." They command authority naturally. They're viewed by other people as, "Sometimes they tell us the ugly truth, but we couldn't do this without them." That's a very different perspective.

Blair: Everything goes through them. If you want some resource, if you want something to happen, it has to go through them.

David: Yes. Because if they find out you went around them, that is not going to be good for you. [laughs] Command that authority naturally.

Blair: Then what's another attribute?

David: Another one is quick sifting abilities. This has been true for eternity, but I think it's particularly appropriate nowadays, where there's just this fire hose of data. You don't want to think of a great project manager who processes all of that data and spits out how we should think about it. No. A project manager is great, not because they process all that data, but because they know where the signal is inside of the noise.

Blair: Oh, they know what to ignore.

David: Yes. I just think that is such an important skill. You think about an account manager, sometimes their minds are overwhelmed because they have antennas up everywhere, and they're listening to some stuff that they should not listen to. A project manager knows where the signal is, where the noise is, and they have these quick sifting abilities that allow them to make correct decisions really quickly.

They're not frozen by, "Okay, what does all this mean, or what if I--?" They're very confident. They know exactly what to listen to and what to ignore.

Blair: Account managers are a young Labrador Retriever, and project managers are an old cat.

David: [laughs] Yes. We probably shouldn't say that out loud but yes, yes. [laughs]

Blair: They command authority naturally, they have quick sifting abilities, so they know what to focus on, what to ignore. They don't get distracted by the noise in the signal. What else makes them special?

David: They reevaluate project priorities frequently. One of the things that's interesting in the research I did is that the best project managers are right in the middle on this point. They are not rigid followers of process, so much so that when a priority changes, they just freeze, and it's a deer in the middle of the road, not sure which side of the road to run to as a car comes. They're not like that. They're not such rigid followers of process, but they also don't just spit out process, because they think they don't need it.

They're somewhere in the middle. What makes them somewhere in the middle is that they have lots of processes, but they are constantly reevaluating priorities, and they can function in that mild chaos. It's interesting here, to think about how a PM interacts with an AM, because what makes an account manager really effective also means that they have very little patience for somebody who is not flexible. That's one of the biggest problems for an AM.

They just don't get along very well with people who are not flexible. When you have a PM who's not flexible enough, it becomes this cat and dog relationship, to carry that metaphor further. The best PMs know how to be flexible enough so that the AM can look like they're pulling strings for the client, but not so flexible that they stop protecting the two things that they must protect within an agency.

That is, they protect the profitability of the agency, and they protect the work-life balance of the creatives, the doers, the software engineers, whatever you're doing. They're flexible, but not at the expense of those two things. They re-evaluate project priorities frequently. That's the third one.

Blair: That's an interesting observation because I tend to think of people in the extremes on this point. There's the great Winston Churchill, I think, quote that, plans are useless but planning is priceless, or planning is essential. That speaks to what you're talking about here, I think. We make plans but we're not so rigid that we can't recognize that from time to time, the plans need to change, or need to go out the window entirely.

That middle ground of seeing the importance of planning, of sticking to it when we can, but also recognizing that we do have to pivot from time to time, seems to be invaluable. It's interesting, I like the way that you frame it. It really is a middle ground on that dimension, isn't it?

David: It is. The fourth one is that they listen to stakeholders and the key word there is really listen. They're not just-- Their mind being occupied, and they're pretending to listen. No. When you go to talk to a project manager, you have their full attention, and they care about solving your needs. Again, they're going to balance all the other people that are making those demands on them as well. They really listen to stakeholders, because when you have a poorly run PM Hub, people feel they're just stuck in their ways.

Blair: They're overweighted to one side. Either the rigidity of the process or deferring to the account manager's request on behalf of the client. Et cetera. Sorry to interrupt you, but I'm really seeing it this way for, perhaps, the first time. It really is this balancing job of the resources on one side, and let's not forget that those resources are people who have lives and want to go home at the end of the day, then results on the other side, results for our clients, who are also people.

David: Exactly right.

Blair: They listen to stakeholders, they're good communicators. They don't just go through the motions. You have a point around self-awareness too.

David: They're aware of how they might come across to somebody, because of their matter-of-factness, they tend to just come right out and say things that other people are thinking, and they realize how that might drop with a thud on people. They try to shape their communication style so that it's receptive to the people who care about how things are said, and not just the actual substance of what's said.

Blair: We're talking about what makes the best project manager special. So far, you've listed they command authority naturally, they have quick sifting abilities, they reevaluate project priorities frequently, and they listen to stakeholders. What's next on your list of what makes these people special?

David: They don't use information as a weapon. This comes up fairly frequently. My guess is maybe 20% of firms would have this happening, where the project management team, because usually there's more than one person, they're all working together, they realize how central they are, and instead of engendering this excitement about how useful we can be to you as great project managers, they turn passive-aggressive, and they only say certain things.

They might fake a deadline, or they might say, "No, this person is not available," or "We can't do this by that date," but they say they can do it by that date with somebody that plays the game well. The best project managers don't play around with information and use it as a weapon. They're not passive-aggressive. They are clear, complete, concise. When they say something, you can believe it, they are giving you all of the information that you need.

Not withholding it so that you have to come back to them for permission, power, resources, or something like that. In your interaction with them, you do not have this bad taste in your mouth that you're being played. They don't use information as a weapon. That's what I mean by that one.

Blair: They don't use information as a weapon, and it's an interesting idea. I hadn't thought about it before. I can put project managers that I know into both of those camps, ones who are just really straightforward, what they say is the truth, you never have to second guess or wonder if you're being played, or if there's some personal animosities at stake here, then others where you do have to ask those questions.

Maybe you've pissed somebody off, it's gotten personal, and they're retaliating in these kind of quiet but forceful ways. What's next on the list of what makes the best project manager special?

David: Predictable communication cadences. This is really more important at the beginning of any project, the exception. I like to think of communication as the deliverable for the first half or so of a project. Recognizing that, they provide what's necessary to whoever's managing the client relationship to keep the client at bay, happy, satisfied, and feeling like progress is being made.

The difference here, if a project manager was not providing predictable communication cadences would be-- If you're the account manager, you're left wondering, "I wonder where that is." Great project managers don't leave that vacuum, where the AM has to go chase them down and figure out what's happening. There's this regular communication cadence that helps anybody else relax.

They not only know that the PM team is on it, because there's so much evidence that they've been on it, in every other project they work on, but you also know that, "Okay, it's Wednesday morning, you're going to get an update, and if you need one between now and next Wednesday, then you can easily ask for it." They just recognize that deliverables are not just what happens at the end of a project, but deliverables include communication throughout the whole thing, and they facilitate that deliverable before there's a real deliverable.

Blair: Once again, this is like therapy for me. I'm reliving past traumas that I didn't realize I was carrying with me, [laughs] as you say this. [laughs] I'll save them for my real therapist, but some very specific incidents are coming up. One was, "Hey, where's my stuff?" "Well, we don't have it." "Well, you said you were going to get it." "Well, you never checked in with us." "What do you mean? It's my job to check in with you?" [laughs]

David: You have PM PTSD.

Blair: I do. Yes. All right. Your next point is on domain expertise in project management. I was well into my career, where I realized project management is actually a thing unto itself, and people go to school for this. There are all kinds of resources available to project management people. You think that's, "Oh, who can't manage a project? How hard can it be?"

David: Yes. Six Sigma. I think there's a lot of project management in that. There's PMP certification, project management professional. The point here is that all of those basic understandings of project management really need to be applied to this field. If you think about the difference between a print campaign, an out-of-home campaign, or a native mobile app, and how each of those is so different, and even the software tools that you would use to track progress are so different.

The best project managers aren't saying things where the skilled players are looking at each other saying, "Have they ever been in this field before?" They just don't even know the language, and so on. No, the best project managers not only are great at project management, but they're great at project management in this space. That's what I mean by domain expertise.

Blair: Got you. I suspect you could take a good project manager from another space, drop them in, and it's a matter of time, once they amass that domain expertise, that they become just as effective.

David: They're going to get to speed faster because they have that natural ability, but they still need to get up to speed.

Blair: Yes. Domain expertise is still important. All right. We've got three more on the list. What's next?

David: Yes. Consensus-building skills, because you are managing conflict, it's not real conflict, but it's kind of conflict, where there is some necessary tension. You've got to make some decisions, you've got to set priorities in certain areas. The project manager is good at not just making decisions that people are going to have to live with, but they're good at helping people accept these decisions and accepting the compromises for the good of the firm.

You have each individual account manager who's fighting for their client roster, and then you have the PM who's trying to fight for the whole firm. That consensus building is important because, otherwise, you just have a lot of people pissed off at you. The best project managers are really good at managing that conflict so that it doesn't blow out of proportion. Then, you end up with some passive-aggressive stuff, and you have each side sniping at the other one. Consensus building is important.

Blair: They're a facilitator of trade-offs, and the more you describe the characteristics of the successful project manager, the more the word balance comes to mind. Lots of different parties, lots of competing resources, lots of different goals, et cetera. They're the person who has to balance it all out. Again, I'm thinking of my way, or the highway PMs that I've worked with previously, and then others who are really good at facilitating the consensus, getting everybody to understand that there's trade-offs, and finding something that works for everybody, and may be perfect for nobody.

David: Right. The next one is informal networks. These people bring this vast array of solutions to problems.

Blair: "I got a guy."

David: Right, yes. They're not ignoring problems, hoping they'll go away. They look for-- In a sales call, where you talk about how you need-- Objections are your friend. To these people, possible problems are their friends. They like to see those and solve them before they get out of hand. They've got this vast network of people, "I've got a guy," they can bring them in, and they manage these people so that they are happy to jump when something important is needed.

That's obviously part of what makes them effective, is that they have developed really strong relationships with all of these other resources that they can bring in, who enjoy working with them because it's organized, the promises are real, they get paid promptly, and all that stuff. They have these informal networks. Now, this is also-- It can be overused. People with the right personality profile for project management tend to overuse some of the same methods they've had.

The best project managers are constantly expanding their informal networks, and they take them with them, from job to job. This is like a new coach. Part of the interview process is, "Okay, who are your assistant coaches going to be?" That's part of what you would ask somebody when you're considering a new project manager, "Tell me about your informal network."

Blair: My thinking on this position is changing as you walk through this list, and I realize I'm previously guilty of thinking of the project manager as more linear and process-oriented than, say, an account manager, or certainly a salesperson, and while I suspect that's still true, I think I've been airing way too far out on that spectrum. My assumption is, if you're a good engineer, you're probably a good project manager, you have good project management skills.

What I'm hearing you say, and correct me if I'm wrong, some of those people can be too linear and process-oriented, and aren't adaptable enough when situations change, as they always do. Is that a fair characterization, you think?

David: It is, yes. As you were saying that, I was thinking about a wedding planner who has thought of every little detail, but knows that three or four things are going to fall off the wagon on the day, and he or she will be fully prepared to respond to it then. They have this really interesting mix of planning everything, but being very flexible as well. It's linear at the beginning, and then it's healthily sloppy later on, as real life intrudes on the process.

Blair: Right. You start with a really solid plan, and then you recognize that you're going to have to adapt and pivot, change is coming, and you're okay with it.

David: Yes, exactly.

Blair: All right. Last point.

David: Last one is just that project management is not something that people have settled into because they couldn't find another job. Now, this is an exciting challenge. They love coming to work, they love making people look good. They love the satisfaction of planning, satisfied clients, and profitable work at the firm. It's like-- We've talked off and on about how principals need to view managing the firm as their big creative challenge.

Instead of always solving clients' creative challenges, they need to think of running their firm as a creative challenge. That's how project managers think about this too. We tend to call creatives, like designers and writers, and so on. Really, these people are just as creative, it's just applied differently. It's an exciting challenge. That's how they think of it.

Blair: That's really interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way either. We've covered your list of what you think makes the best project managers special. I won't recap the list. All the work that you've done with all the firms that you've done, all the AMs, all the PMs you've worked with, have you ever spotted an AM or a PM and thought, "You know what, you really should be in the other role"?

David: Oh, absolutely. In fact, I used to do seminars for just AMs and just PMs, and inevitably, there were one or two people who should have gone to the other seminar. I decided, "Okay, I'll just do them both together." That way, they've heard everything, and they need to work together really closely, too. Now, all the seminars are for both of them. We just had 110 people come, and there were, I think, two people in the group that said, "You know what, I'm in the wrong one," and they switched right there. Yes, it happens.

Blair: About 2% of the population, based on that sample,-

David: Small sample. [laughs]

Blair: -realizes that, they're a PM, they should be an AM, or they're an AM, they should be a PM. Isn't that interesting?

David: Yes. I just want people, again, back to that big point, I want people to celebrate great project managers, and hopefully, if you're a principal and you're listening to this, and we've been describing to a significant degree your project manager, then send them a link to this and say, "You know what? You're a great project manager." Or you could send them a link and say, "You know what? You're really bad. Could you just learn from this?" No, you wouldn't do that.

I just think project managers are amazing. They're in every area of our lives, and I don't think the world would go around without them. As applied to this field, let's talk more about them.

Blair: Okay. Well, David Baker, the project manager's hero in this world of creative marketing and other expertise-based businesses. Thanks, David. This is enlightening.

David: Thanks, Blair.